SLAGLE: What do you think about breaking kayfabe and the way that's come about in the last few years?  That seems to have coincided with the internet explosion.

SCHERER:  Well, I think in a lot of ways, the companies just finally realized, you know, "There's no way we can hide this from the masses anymore..."

SLAGLE:  It doesn't matter, anyway...

SCHERER: Yeah, it doesn't matter, and it never did.  I never understood why, I mean, I can't really believe that the promoters thought that, you know, all of the people sitting in the stands really believed that they were seeing a real fight.  You know?  I think that, granted, there were some fans that did that, maybe ten to twenty percent, but I think most of the people, even twenty years ago, that went to the matches realized that what they going to be entertained.  It didn't matter to them, and they knew, that Bob Backlund and Jimmy Snuka didn't really hate each other, you know?  That was another guy, by the way, you talked about guys from the past, I liked Snuka a lot.

SLAGLE:  Yeah, he was really primed to take the belt it seemed like, and then it just never really happened.

SCHERER:  Well, I just think he was the kind of guy that, you know...

SLAGLE:  He wasn't reliable enough?

SCHERER:  Yeah, and I just think he was marching to his own beat, and they were kind of skeptical to say, "OK, you're our World Champ now."  They'd much rather have a guy who was, I don't want to say controllable, but a guy who's much more stable, let's say.

SLAGLE: Right.  Now Dave, you've been a "Superstar" Billy Graham fan for a long time, going back to your childhood. Do you remember the first time you saw him on TV?

SCHERER:  You know, I couldn't tell you when or where, but I do remember, I remember the first time I saw him, because he was just so different, you know?  He stood out from everybody else. I do remember there was a promo on TV, when Vince brought him in to Philadelphia to wrestle.  I think it was like `77 when I first saw him, and I wasn't even a big wrestling fan then.  But, he made an impression on me, because he was so much different than everybody else.

SLAGLE:  Well, actually, for our listeners who weren't around at the time, can you kind of explain, from your point of view as a fan back then, some of the ways that Graham differed from the other guys competing during that era?

SCHERER: Well, he was real flamboyant, you know?  Obviously, he had a great body, and he worked hard at it, but he was real flamboyant and he had a lot of charisma to him.  In some ways, like Gorgeous George did.  But, whereas Gorgeous George, he had charisma and nothing else, Superstar was more of a guy that...he just did it!  He was just so different, and had so much going for him.  You'd never seen it before, you know?  Back then, that was great stuff!

SLAGLE:  Now, Graham had a huge influence on a lot of the wrestlers that followed him, and he had many guys that borrowed from him. From the obvious ones like Hogan and Jesse to guys like Austin Idol (pictured), even Ric Flair back when he first started, up to today, with guys like Big Poppa Pump...

SCHERER:  Well, I think guys, you know, when they see something that works, they're gonna borrow from it!  Especially in the wrestling business.

SLAGLE:  Sure, absolutely.  So, was there any Billy Graham type wrestler that stood out to you as being exceptionally entertaining?

SCHERER: Billy Graham.

SLAGLE:  Yeah, the original is the best, I'm sure.

SCHERER:  Yeah, I mean, you know, guys can take from what he did, but he did it first.  You know, I'm someone who likes to support the guy that came up with the idea, not the guy who steals it, or adapts it.

SLAGLE:  Yeah.  Now as you know, Billy Graham did wrestle in just about every territory, every promotion you can think of back in the seventies and eighties, and he feuded with dozens and dozens of the biggest names in the sport.  Was there a favorite feud you had of Billy's, one that stands out in you mind as being really good?

SCHERER: I remember the matches with Dusty, which as I said, I wasn't much of a fan then.  Then, after that, I really remember him doing the karate gimmick in Crockett's promotion.

SLAGLE:  I was going to ask you about that, actually.  What are your thoughts on the karate gimmick that he used when he returned to the WWF in `82?.

SCHERER:  I think it was good because he tried to change up what he was doing.  He realized that, in the interim from what he was doing, Hogan had taken a lot of what he was doing from him, so he tried something different.  That's pretty cool.

SLAGLE:  Now, do you remember the angle where he ripped the title belt in half, and Backlund was crying and everything?

SCHERER: Not really, no.

SLAGLE:  TI was just wondering...that was what he did when he first came back in with the karate thing.  Now, during his reign as the WWF champion, Superstar was managed by the Grand Wizard...

SCHERER:  The greatest manager of all time!

SLAGLE:  Absolutely, I'm in agreement with you there!  Now looking back, was it really necessary for Graham, who was one of the best interviews in the business at the time, to be paired with the Wizard?  Do you think that...

SCHERER: Was it necessary? Probably not.  But at the time, The Wizard was with all of the top guys, so if you were The Wizard's guy, then you were the top guy, too, you know?

SLAGLE:  Do you think any of the other WWF managers, like Lou Albano or Fred Blassie could've done just as well with Graham, or did it have to be The Wizard?

SCHERER:  Blassie probably could've done just as well.  Lou?  Lou was just all over the place, you know?  He always had a lot to say, but to me, Lou was just as into getting Lou over as he was getting his guy over.  You know, the Grand Wizard would present his guy as a killer, you know?  Lou would kind of do that, but he'd also be putting over Lou, too, with all of the 'dehydrated bee-bee' stuff and...in a way, I think he was so goofy that it took away from the seriousness of his guys.  You know, with him, you needed, like, The Samoans to eat raw fish and stuff so they could still seem like they were crazy and stuff, you know?  `Cause Lou would like, just be Lou.

SLAGLE:  Right, right.  And also, with The Grand Wizard and Graham, there was that size contrast, where it enhanced him.

SCHERER:  Oh yeah, the Wizard made him look huge.  I mean, huge!

SLAGLE:  Yeah.  Now Dave, I know you've got to get going, you're busy guy and everything, but before you do, I wanted to ask you one last question.  It may be a difficult for you to answer, but I was wondering if you could give us your thoughts on how the wrestling business, or aspects of the business, would be different had "Superstar" Billy Graham never become a pro wrestler?  Like, the way things would be different, what do you see?

SCHERER:  Um, that's an interesting question.  I think, you know, a lot of what Superstar came up with on his own obviously were elements that Vince McMahon, Jr. used to make the W.W.W.F. into the WWF that it became, and is today.  Would Vince have come with that on his own, without Superstar?  He probably would've come up with at least some of it.  I'm one of those people that believe that even with every original, there's always someone who's going to come along later that would've at least had some of the same ideas, you know what I mean?

SLAGLE:  Yeah.

SCHERER:  So, I mean, someone probably would've eventually come along and done some of the things Superstar did, but he did them first.

SLAGLE:  Ok, well, I want to thank you again, Dave, for joining us here today.  And everyone be sure to check out his stuff at 1wrestling.com, the Daily Lariat, and also his column with the Daily News.  Also, I'd like to thank everyone for visiting www.superstarbillygraham.com, and we'll see you next time!