LONG: I'm good, Steve, thanks.

SLAGLE:  Good!  Now, I just mentioned that you created the first pro wrestling website back in `94.  Can you give us the story on why you created the Pro Wrestling Online Museum, and what the internet scene was like back then?

LONG: Well, there are two reasons, really.  One, I was in grad school, and the world wide web was just emerging at the time, just getting popular and moving from LINX, which was a text-based browser, and Mosaic was just coming into fashion.  So, I was a pretty regular reading of the rspw newsgroup, where wrestling was discussed, and I realized that a number of people were creating information lists, and people would write in and say, "Hey -- can you re-post that Real Names list?"  Or, the Dead Wrestlers list or whatever.  And, I realized that it would be nice if there was a central place where they could all just go to, rather than having people re-post stuff or re-email it.  So, I decided to create a wrestling website, and waited until Mosaic was out, because I figured people would also want the ability to look at pictures, and, eventually, sounds and things like that.  So, I created the wrestling site, and made a big effort to get it out fast, because I did want to be the first one out there with one on it [wrestling].  And, I guess it was at least a couple of months before any other wrestling websites came out there.  Everything really was in its infancy, including (chuckles) the design and everything that I did, because there were limitations on what you could do with the browser.  There was a lot of information out there, there was Prodigy, and AOL had wrestling areas, but I realized that the world wide web would be a fundamentally huge step, because this would allow people from anywhere, everywhere, to be able to read information.  And, that was born a couple of weeks after , without announcing the site, I started getting emails from people in Japan asking me if I had photos of certain wrestlers, and Israel, and I just started realizing the world-wide reach of coming in to my site would be significant. And, it ended up with so much success that I ended up creating my own web design & development company out of it.  So, you know, it launched a couple of different things for me and I guess for others.

SLAGLE:  Now, it seems like today that there are two kind of schools of thought within the wrestling business about the internet.  The first line of thinking goes along the lines of, the internet audience is an insignificant two to five percent of the total audience, and therefore that group of fans should not be "catered" to.  Now, the other mindset believes that simply due to the sheer number of Americans now online, estimated at around 50 million U.S. citizens, that the percentage of wrestling fans who visit websites is far greater.  Not only that, the thinking goes that if someone is dedicated enough to follow wrestling on the internet, that that type of fan is also more apt to buy a PPV or attend a house show -- as opposed to the fan who only tunes in on Monday night.  Given your insight, and your experience on the internet, what are your thoughts on the size of the internet audience and how do you think the WWF, WCW and ECW should market their product towards those fans?

LONG:  Well, I think the internet has finally emerged to the point where...any number that you can find, people are spinning, you've got spin doctors out there using those numbers to support whatever claims that they're making.  I agree with the point you made about how the internet can be used to reach the die-hard fan.  One of the reasons I would read the rspw newsgroup, and why most people did, was because I wanted to follow along, to get some insight into what was happening behind the scenes, to find out more information about their wrestlers, and back before the internet came out, back in the days when there were a lot of territories...I grew up in the northeast, so I never knew about anything that happened outside of the WWF.  I didn't know anything that went on.  So, for me, when I got on the newsgroup and was finding out different things that were happening in different areas of the country, or different behind-the-scenes stuff with the wrestlers, it got me a lot more interested, and moved me back towards being even more of a fan than I was then.  I think now, the things that we know are going on behind the scenes that may happen on a PPV or are brewing as one approaches, it might draw a lot of people who are in the know to go ahead and order that event.  And, you know, if it only prompts another 5,000 people, well, that's 5,000 more buys than they may have gotten.  However, I do think that if you try just to aim things at the 'smart' people, then the regular fan doesn't understand, or they are not going to get it.  I don't know if that necessarily means they won't follow along.  I think, a lot of the time, it might draw them in to see if they can gain more insight.  Now, they know where they can go, they can go to some of the online sites and get the scoop on things.

SLAGLE:  What do you think about the two to five percent?  I mean, I know it's kind of a 'guestimate' but do you believe that figure?  It seems like to me that it would be a lot higher...

LONG:  No...I think that's a silly number.   I look at the statistics, and the demos and surveys for the Wrestling Museum, and the numbers are pretty interesting in terms of the age groups that are coming there, and the education levels and the earning levels of people that are visiting the site.  They are a lot different than most people would put down as a common profile of a wrestling fan.  I really think people are misinterpreting, or even just flat out mis-stating the numbers, because, number one, all they are doing is guessing, they don't know because they haven't taken surveys to find out actually how many are on there.  But, if you look the number of fans who are watching WCW and the WWF every Monday night, which is staggering, I mean, consider when, during the impeachment hearings, the top seven programs were all wrestling shows, the impeachment hearings were number eight.  That shows a huge, huge number of mainstream people are watching wrestling.  So, it would make sense that it would convert over to the internet, that those mainstream people who are interested in wrestling would log on and try to find out information on the internet as well.

And then, some of the statistics that have been coming out recently, with the WWF readership...you know, 200 million page views a month doesn't lie.  I think when you look at that and compare it to a lot of the search engines, you realize how significant of a number that is.  I think that five percent is a ridiculous guess.

SLAGLE:  Ok, so, which company -- once they've got the fan to their website -- which company do you feel is doing the best out of making the most of the internet experience for the wrestling fans?

LONG: I think they both really approach it in different ways.

I think WCW is trying to present their information to the fans through their website, I don't think they necessarily do as good of a job, since the WWF has put more resources into it.  I think the WWF draws a lot of attention from their fans, they've got a die-hard following, so a lot of their fans log in to find out information or interviews or whatever they have on there.  And, once in there, they push a lot of their products, their PPV, their programing, and their merchandise at them, and they definitely do a good job of making business.

Whereas, with WCW, I think that -- and this is really the only thing that they can do -- they are trying to draw interest in their product and their company as a whole, and I think they do a really good job of that through the WCW Live! Real Audio show.  They get people in there, they get them more familiar with the product, they bring on guest wrestlers so the people can talk to them and ask questions...I believe it's the #1 internet radio show.  So, they do a really good job with that.  They are able to diffuse a lot of problems that may be happening or explain a lot of the behind-the-scenes goings on, so the people can figure it out before they make a judgment.  "Oh, I'm not going to watch WCW because this or that happened..."  They're able to explain.  So, I think both are approaching it in different ways.  In fact, I'm very surprised, actually, that the WWF hasn't done more...I know they have their own wrestling show online, but I think it's only once a week.

SLAGLE:  Byte This...

LONG:  Yeah.  I'm very surprised that they haven't tried going head-to-head against WCW Live...

SLAGLE:   Well, really, having listened to both of them, I don't think they really compare, they're doing more of a kaye fabe schtick over there, where WCW...while I'm sure they work their fans, in fact I know they do on some things, they take it a little more seriously it seems like to me...

LONG:  Right, right.  Well, I guess they could compete with WCW Live if they really wanted to.  They know what they're doing.  It doesn't seem like many of the things they do, they do wrong.  Maybe they feel like they are in a leadership position, and they don't need to follow.

SLAGLE:  It could just be that they're appealing to a different type of fan, too.

LONG:  Well, you know what?  They don't need to give the inside scoop to their fans, their fans will believe anything they want.  And, I'm not saying that in a bad way.  They've got their fans so enraptured with the product that they can present anything they want, and the fans will not only not question them, but, really, they don't want to know any more than what they are presented with, I guess.

SLAGLE:  Now, I know that you grew up on the east coast, in the heart of WWF territory, or the WWWF territory, for that matter.  Therefore, you must have some recollections of "Superstar" Billy Graham.  Can you tell us some of your early memories of The Superstar, and how he differed from the other WWF wrestlers of that time period?

LONG:  Well, he couldn't have differed any more if he'd tried to!  Back when I started watching, my father took me to an event at the D.C. Armory probably in, like, `68 when I was three and I started to go see wrestling from probably `72 through `79.  We'd go to the Capital Center in Landover and see the WWWF, and every week we'd Bruno Sammartino, Bobo Brazil and Pedro Morales.  The guys were pretty dry.  Not really dull, and the crowds that were there would get worked up around them.  But, most of them just plodded around the ring playing the 'working man's hero' and, you know, that's kind of boring.  I liked it, because I was a kid, but they weren't really colorful and I can't remember really any speeches that they gave or anything that I can relate today that was really significant.

But, when Superstar came on the scene, it was a whole new thing!  He looked different, he acted different, and he just was different.  He came in there and got on the mic, and would just rattle off his promos.  He'd get the crowd booing him, but he'd get the crowd cracking up at the same time!  Then, he came in with his tie-dyes when everyone else just wore plain black or blue trunks and just stomped around the ring.  He came in with a chiseled body that looked almost alien, because everybody else had that old Crusher look, like they'd been eating meat & potatoes and washing it down with beer all those years.  And, then, here's this guy who had this body and was, you know, hanging out with Schwartzenagger, and he just added a whole new concept.  Back then, really, if you wanted to get any promos or anything that was really going to draw heat, you'd have to have the managers out there, the Capt. Lou's and the Grand Wizard's coming up and addressing the crowd and announcer.  But, Billy was able to do all of that.

It's actually kind of funny, because, looking at it then, I almost couldn't figure out what to make of him, because he did so many things different in so many ways, that it was almost more than, as a kid, I could take in.  But, looking back at it now, I see it as innovation, because he was doing stuff then that other people didn't start doing for another five or six years.  I look at it, and I look at the influence he has had on the wrestlers today, sometimes I look back at old tapes, and realize new things.  Like, he had his 'dew rag' on back in like `78, before everyone else was doing that.   In addition to the tye-dyed clothes and the promos and the body and the arrogance that he walked around with...it was not only a big change in the scene then, but it's still a big change even if you go another five or six years after that.