MELTZER:
I would say that he changed the business, um, from an influence standpoint,
I think he is one of the most influential wrestlers there ever was. SLAGLE:
Yeah, his legacy is really the key...
MELTZER:
And if you look back on guys who influenced the business, he's up there,
he's up there with the top guys. There were plenty of guys who held
World titles longer, and probably made more money in the business and had
more longevity and were better wrestlers or even better interviews, but
they did not have his influence on changing the business. It's like,
you take Jesse Ventura and Hulk Hogan out of this industry, and it's like,
wow, think about that!
SLAGLE:
Yeah, it sort of boggles your mind if you sit there and think, "What if
Superstar Graham had never existed?" I mean, you know, it would change
everything...
MELTZER:
There would've never been...even Flair! I mean, Flair was not a Billy
Graham copy...
SLAGLE:
He was influenced, though, for sure...
MELTZER: SLAGLE:
Yeah, if it wasn't for him, both of those guys would have been radically
different from what we know them as today. MELTZER:
Vince would've been a different person. He may very well have
been just as successful. Hogan would've been a different person,
and there's no way he would've been as successful. I mean, I'm sorry,
but there is just no way. Like I said, it would've just been a completely
different business.
SLAGLE:
WIth that in mind, by today's standards, a ten-month reign is, you know,
considered quite long. Other than, I mean, I guess Triple H has had
it for that long, but in WCW it's inconceivable at this period in time
to have a ten-month World title reign. But in the seventies, when
Graham had the title for ten months, the WWWF title, it was considered
pretty short. Now, in retrospect, do think that Vince Sr. made the
right decision by taking the belt off Graham before he showed signs of
his drawing power waning? Do you think it was the right time?
MELTZER:
Well, you have to understand what the whole thing was. SLAGLE: MELTZER:
You can't compare that ten-month reign, you know, with now. But,
so, it's a different thing. Yeah, they could've sat there and gone,
"You know what? He's drawing so well..." But at the same time,
you only have so many top babyfaces in the territory. But, there
could've been more guys. He could've gone on longer, there's no doubt
about it because it's like...if the crowds were dwindling, and you're looking
at it going, "OK, the crowds are dwindling, it's time to make a change."
But with Billy, that never happened.
SLAGLE:
Yeah, the crowds never waned at all...
MELTZER:
No, they didn't. So this was the plan. Billy's role was to
put Backlund over for the belt You know, when it was time for
Backlund to get his shot, that was it. They made the decision to
go with Backlund. Whether it was...you know, Backlund was a successful
champion, which is hard to believe, looking back, but he was.
SLAGLE: MELTZER:
Yeah, well, Billy's been a friend of mine for years, and you know, I mean,
seriously, I don't know if this is the case because you just never know,
but I don't know that I would've been a big wrestling fan if he wouldn't
have come along. Maybe I would've, you know, just watched wrestling
for a month or two and then lost interest, but it was that period where
he was in San Francisco and it just kind of sucked me in. And fortunately
or unfortunately, I've never gotten out! And he did that with a lot
of people. I think people today, because so many of the fans now
are new fans, and there's not a lot of interest in wrestling history, but
there are so many people in the AWA area and Texas and Florida and California
and New York who got sucked into wrestling because of the charisma of Billy
Graham. Hogan and Jesse being two of them...
SLAGLE:
Well, I would be the third, because, I mean, I started watching wrestling
when I was three years old because of "Superstar" Billy Graham. If
it wasn't for him, I probably wouldn't have even started watching, but
I saw this guy and it was like "Wow, look at him!"
MELTZER:
Yeah...
SLAGLE:
And, you know, I've been hooked ever since.
MELTZER:
Well, I would've started watching it, `cause I started watching it before
he came into the territory, and all the kids that were my age, fifth grade,
they all watched it. But I don't know if I would've stayed with it,
I don't know if I would've been as interested in it. I mean, when
I first started begging my parents to take me to live shows...you know,
of the guys in the main event, he was the reason more than the other ones.
Maybe I would've ended up being just as big of a fan, I don't know.
I do that my first...I mean, Billy Graham & Pat Patterson were the
guys I wanted to see. But, you know, I was very fortunate in that
I grew up where the promoter was a detail man, where the wrestling actually
made sense, and it kind of, you know, you start learning what draws and
what doesn't. That was a good place to learn, because it's a lot
better to learn when you see what makes sense than from promotions that
aren't doing well. It doesn't makes sense, and you don't really understand,
like, how wrestling...I don't know, he used a lot of concepts of wrestling.
Shire was, um, I think it was very fortunate for Billy to work early for
Shire, too. I think that probably helped him a lot, as far as like
his psychology.
FOR
MORE ON DAVE, BE SURE TO VISIT
If
you really look at it. I mean, because Billy Graham was the catalyst
of Vince McMahon's vision of wrestling. That was Vince's favorite
wrestler in the seventies. And, he wanted the wrestlers to look like
Billy, and, you know, that whole aspect, with the steroids and everything.
And then, just, you know, Hogan. You know, Hogan, I mean, he wouldn't
have been Hulk Hogan without Billy Graham. That's what his character
was copied after, and you know, if Hulk Hogan had copied himself after
Jack Brisco, it wouldn't have worked to the same degree. It might've
worked, but it...or Terry Funk, it wouldn't have worked to the degree that
it did. Billy was a better copy for Terry Bollea. And you know,
hey, if it wasn't for Billy Graham, we'd never have a Jesse Ventura, the
government would be different. I mean, I'm serious. His influence,
it's almost hilarious, his influence was so incredible in our culture,
that it's almost staggering. I, uh, you know, I never really never
think about it much, but then when I do, it's just like, my God, there
would be no Jesse, there would be no Hogan, the wrestling of the eighties
would've been totally different. I mean, he one of the most
influential characters in the history of this business and pop culture.
Not necessarily on what he did, but what he led to. And what he did,
I mean, obviously he was a huge star in the seventies, but what he led
to far outweighed what he actually did.
Well,
Ric Flair started wrestling...his career started at the same time Billy
Graham was the top heel in the AWA. so, obviously, there's something there.
I mean, you take Billy Graham out of the equation and it's just, wow, entirely...the
business would be entirely different. I mean, I'm not trying to say
he's as important as Hogan or Vince, but he shaped both of their visions
of wrestling.
The
W.W.W.F. was a formula promotion. It was built on a babyface champion,
the babyface champion going over, good conquering evil. So, it's
pretty hard to have a heel champion. If you look at Billy's reign
as compared to Bruno Sammartino and Bob Backlund and Pedro Morales, it
was relatively short. But his reign compared to the other transitional
champions, which is really what Billy was, which is The Sheik, Stasiak
and Ivan Koloff, which were all, you know, a few days, a few weeks, it
was extremely long. So, he was the longest reigning World champion
of that era. As far as...if you look back now, and you look at the
attendance figures and Billy's success as a drawing card, yes, it was taken
away from him too soon. But, you know, he'll tell you the story,
the day he won it he basically knew the day he would lose it. It
was like, i don't know what he told me, it was like 4 to 6 months before
he won it when Vince Sr. called him up. He said, "OK, you're going
to win the title here," you know, told him the day, told him the place.
When he won the title, he already knew when he was going to lose it.
Vince Sr. was like, he had the long-term plan. And the plan was...Billy
was the transitional champion between Bruno, who was getting older and
didn't want to do it anymore probably, and Backlund, who he was going to
make into the new All-American boy, and that's just how it was. Those
plans were made, and the fact that Billy drew so well...they didn't change
the plan. I mean, if it was today, but today they wouldn't let anyone
hold the title that long because they're too impatient, and it's just a
different business, the way the TV is...
Yeah,
it's hard to compare the two.
Now
Dave, I know you have to get going, you've got your own audio show to do
in a few hours on Eyada.com, but I wanted to thank you for taking some
time and talking to us here today about Billy. I know he really appreciates
it too, and I just want to say thanks.
