SLAGLE:  Hey everybody, thanks for tuning into the audio show here at superstarbillygraham.com!  I'm Steve Slagle, and on today's program we've got the owner of 1wrestling.com and the co-host of WCW Live!, and a guy who his opinion carries a lot of weight in the wrestling business, it's my pleasure to introduce Bob Ryder to the show.  Bob how are you doing?

RYDER:  Great, Steve, how's it going?.

SLAGLE: Doing really well!  You know, it's actually a pretty turbulent time right now because as we speak here, the WWF has just won its case, a couple of days ago, its case with the USA Network, where it frees them up to go to a different network, conceivably ECW's network.  So, there's a lot of things that are going on in the wrestling world right now, and I was just wondering if we could get your opinion on the latest happenings?

RYDER:  I think it's probably potentially the biggest news story of the year.  It changes the face of wrestling.  Of course, the WWF had been with USA for seventeen plus years.  The USA Network was a big part of that success of that program.  Now they are changing, they're moving, and there's always a risk anytime you move a show from one network to another.  THey are moving from a very powerful network in USA to one with TNN that doesn't have near the reach, or near the audience.  So, it's a gamble, but certainly they've got a lot of money coming their way, a lot of cross-promotional  things that they can do with CBS/Viacom, so I'm sure the WWF is very confident and very excited about what is out there for them.  The big question is what happens to ECW, and how does USA decide to fill that time slot on Monday nights?

SLAGLE:  Yeah, that really is, that's a key question and it kind of leads me into a question I had for you.  Now, you've worked a great deal not only with WCW, but also for quite awhile with ECW.  You did a lot of things with ECW.  With the WWF seemingly, for now at least, having pretty much won the promotional battle in a lot of ways, and their kind of moving on and branching out into different areas, it seems like now the promotional battle, so to speak, might be focussed more on WCW and ECW.  Now, with your unique perspective, knowing a lot of people in both companies, what are your predictions on the possibly soon-to-be-escalated battle between WCW and ECW?

SLAGLE:  Yeah.  What I'm thinking is that maybe five years down the road or something, let's assume that they get on the USA Network, it could be just a whole different playing field, quite interesting for the fans as well I'm sure.

RYDER:  Yeah.  I'd be very surprised if we see more than two shows on Monday night, head to head.  I'm sure that whatever happens, if ECW gets a more prominent position on one of the major cable systems, then it's going to be a lot of fun for the fans.  The more competition the better, as far as fans go.

SLAGLE:  Definitely.  Now, one thing I wanted to commend you on, first of all, I've listened to the WCW Live! program for quite some time actually since the first day, when I believe...was Hogan your first guest?

RYDER: Hogan was the first guest, yes.

SLAGLE:   It's been what, over a year now?

RYDER:  I think we started in March of `99.  It's been, gosh, sixteen or seventeen months now.

SLAGLE:  Now, is doing WCW Live more time consuming than you originally anticipated?  Also, was it hard to convince the higher-ups at WCW that a program such as that would work?

RYDER: I always knew it would work, but it was tough convincing WCW that it would work because they didn't think that we would get that kind of response, not only from the fans but also the wrestlers.  They thought we'd never get the wrestlers to take time out of their free time to be on the show.  They underestimated how these guys will do anything they can to get themselves over, and they didn't think we'd get calls.  Certainly, it's been a caller-driven program, from the very beginning.  We've had no problem filling two hours every night with calls from all over the world.  It's been a very successful program and it's one that I'm really proud to have been a part of.  But, it did surprise a lot of people in WCW.

SLAGLE:  And as far as like the workload, preparing a program like that, did you expect going in that it was going to be pretty much a full-time thing?

RYDER:  Yeah, we knew how tough it was going to be.  It's not something that takes a lot of preparation other than doing the show.  I mean, once you've done it a long as we have, you kind of just fall into it, and the show builds itself.  We, um, a lot times we'll go into the show not knowing what the format is going to be, or even what we're going to talk about.  Events in the world of wrestling drive the show.  We'll get calls and we'll respond and react, and we try to have guests two to three times a week.  It's sometimes difficult because of the intense travel schedule that the guys have, but we've had some of the top names in the business on our show.

SLAGLE:  Oh yeah, definitely.  Several times, in fact.  .

RYDER:  Right.

SLAGLE:  That's one of the good things about your show that I think is like a trend-setting sort of nuance, I mean, you guys have Eric Bischoff on there, breaking big news.  You have Vince Russo on there, breaking the big news.  And Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair and on.  That's one thing that..there are a lot of internet audio shows, and I listen to all of them, and I enjoy most of them.  But, nobody can match up to WCW Live!, simply in terms of guests.  .

RYDER:  I appreciate that.  But, we've got an advantage, absolutely, because we've got the doors open for us, and we've got the support of the company.  We've also got a little bit of a different kind of a format than some of the other shows.  I mean, we are, even though we're a WCW sponsored show, we don't try to present the show as if it's totally kayefabe.  We talk about issues from a kind of a behind-the-scenes standpoint and answer questions as honestly as we can, and that kin of sets us apart, especially from the WWF program.  They do a good job, but their program on the internet is more an extension of their on-air program, and sometimes that's not what internet fans really want to listen to.

SLAGLE:  Yeah, I would agree with that.  Now, Bob, one thing I wanted to ask you, we're here to talk about a lot of different things, but one of them in particular would be "Superstar" Billy Graham.  I wanted to ask you what were your first memories of "Superstar" Graham?  You're a fan going way back into the sixties, so you were, you were around when...

RYDER:  (chuckling) Yeah, I'm real old!

SLAGLE:  Well, I'm not saying that, I'm saying experienced.  That's a better word...

RYDER:It was a different world back then.  We didn't have the internet.  Very few people had access to any kind of a newsletter.  We depended...if you didn't live in New York or wherever "Superstar" Billy Graham was performing, you had to wait and see what was happening and read about his career in the magazines.  That's how I was first introduced to him.  I read the Wrestling Review and Wrestling World and Ring Wrestling, those were the magazines of that time period, and the covers that he was on, he was a guy that, really, wrestling had never seen anything like him.  He was so flamboyant, so different.  I remember just following his career that way, through the magazines.  The first time I saw him on television was on a Madison Square Garden program.  They used to have, MSG would show the live monthly Garden show, and I believe it was a match he had with Dusty Rhodes.  Dusty had gone to the Garden and was wrestling as "Stardust" Dusty Rhodes, and he was really flamboyant, with the robes and everything.  It was before the American Dream character really took off, and I remember that that was just such an incredible match-up.  The charisma that was in that ring at the same time was amazing.  Graham was just such a trendsetter.  I've often wondered about people like him, he was somebody that changed the business.   And you've got to wonder what he would be making if he was wrestling today.  I mean, he could easily be the top moneymaker, bigger than Hogan, bigger than Rock, bigger than Austin.  He was a guy that really kind of opened doors for people that came after him, and I think that he would probably be the biggest name in the business today.

SLAGLE:  Yeah, he'd definitely be up there, there's no doubt about that.  Now, as a fan, you clearly remember the territorial days and it's kind of funny because younger fans, they can understand the concept, but they really just don't get the whole idea behind...when you were growing up, and you'd live in your state, and there would be wrestling in your state, and you'd read about all the other wrestling.  And then, if you'd ever go on vacation or somewhere, you could actually see it.  And it was just such a different time in the wrestling business back then, I was wondering, I know that you watched the old Leroy McGuirk territory, did Superstar ever come through there?

RYDER:  I recall him ever coming through there, I don't believe he did.  I know that one of the first magazine memories I had was "Introducing Billy Graham" and he was the big muscular, muscle-bound guy. That was pretty much the way everybody learned what he was all about.  And then, you know, he started adding things.  He would have the psychedelic shirt and, you know, the character started to develop.  But, I don't recall him ever coming through.  It was very difficult to keep up with what was going on in other parts of the country because we didn't have cable.   For instance, living in Louisiana, I might have the opportunity to see two different promotions simply because different television programs that we had overlapped.  I might have the Monroe station and get the McGuirk show and I might get the Baton Rouge station and get Gulf South Wrestling.  But he never really, as far as I can recall, he never passed through either of those territories.

SLAGLE:  Another aspect of being a fan back then was that you could, actually, you could keep up -- even though you couldn't see them -- you could keep up with the goings on of different wrestlers and follow their careers through the magazines.  Although, a lot of the time, or practically all of the time, the magazines were fictional, to say the least.  But I mean, you still knew what was going on with that wrestler, even though he wasn't wrestling in your territory.

RYDER:  Right, right.  It was a lot of fun.  The magazines were so much more important then than they are now.  Certainly a lot of people still read them, but back then, that was your only real source of information.  Whether it was legitimate or not, that was how you found out who these guys were.  I remember reading so much about Bruno Sammartino and never having seen one of his matches, I felt like I knew his career because I'd read about all the big matches he had, and the pictures that came with those matches.  You could see the story and really get to know the character by reading about them in the magazines.

SLAGLE:  That kind of leads me to another question, back a few ago when the internet first really hit, maybe five years ago, I remember thinking at the time that, you know, "the magazines are gonna go out of business, there's no way that they can compete with this," as far as the content and the availability of information and everything.  And I've been proven to be quite wrong, there are more wrestling magazines now than there ever was before.  I go to a newsstand and they're just everywhere.  So, what are your thoughts on the internet vs. the magazines as far as a news outlet for wrestling?

RYDER: I think it's changed the way they have to do business, and it...I think it's kind of a cause & effect kind of relationship.  The internet, I think, helped boost the popularity of wrestling to new levels, and was a big part of the reason why the Monday night shows were so successful.  And when that happened, when the explosion of wrestling's popularity happened, it opened up more demand for the kind of magazines that you see know.  W.O.W. changed a lot of things, with the heavy emphasis on quality production and putting out a really slick looking format, a very photographic-driven product, and somewhat of an insider product.  I think the PWI magazines are starting to react and starting to do things a bit differently.  They're actually talking to the people that they interview now, instead of just making up quotes.  And I think that maybe the internet kind of, in that way, legitimized the magazines, and forced them to do something from a more journalistic standpoint.  Rather than just putting a fictional characterization of what a news conference might be like, now they'll actually talk to people.

SLAGLE:  And, it's obviously made a big difference, too.

RYDER:  Sure.

SLAGLE:  Just like the whole wrestling business in general, I mean, for so many years people lied in fear of the secret, so to speak, getting out.  And then, once it did, the business exploded.  Do you think there is a correlation between those two, or is it just coincidence?

RYDER:  No, I think everything happens for a reason.  I think the internet, when it came along, you know, timing is everything.  It's hard to say which came first, the explosion of the internet wrestling websites or the explosion of wrestling because of those sites, they kind of when hand in hand.

When the internet really started to get popular, I guess in `96 and early `97, that was about the same time WCW was gearing up for the NWO and all of those things, and the competition on Monday nights gave people on the internet something to talk about.  Then, the fact that people were talking about it on the internet gave fans a reason to want to watch.  So, it kind of went hand in hand along the way.

SLAGLE:  You mentioned earlier how Graham was so much different than the wrestlers during his era, I mean a lot of them, they were legitimate athletes, but they didn't have, necessarily, the physiques that they currently do.  Billy Graham did have that kind of physique, and he really stood out.  What would you say your memories of Graham were, the way he stood out? Could you just talk about that a little bit, and maybe some of his foes?  Like Jack Brisco (pictured, right & left).  There was just such a contrast there, you know?

RYDER:  Yeah, I mean, he was just so different.  The wrestlers of the day, they had had charismatic guys before, like Gorgeous George was certainly a tremendously charismatic performer. And, in some ways, he was similar to Graham, because of the charisma, because of the way he got audiences to react, but he didn't have the body.  He didn't have the power.  He didn't have all the things that "Superstar" Billy Graham had.  You had people that had the body, but didn't have the charisma.  You had people like Earl Maynard, a Mr. Olympia champion.  You had guys like that, that had the tremendous physique, but didn't have the skill to communicate, or they didn't have the charisma.

"Superstar" Billy Graham put it all together.  He certainly wasn't a scientific wrestler on the scale of a Jack Brisco, but he had something that's even more important, and that's that he got a response from the people.  The fans were responding not just to the body, not just to the interview skills, not just to the charisma, not just to the clothing that he wore, it was the whole package.  It was something that really all came together like, really, no one had ever seen before.

SLAGLE:  Do you think a character like "Superstar" Billy Graham could work in today's wrestling business?  .

RYDER:  You see him almost every Monday night.  You know?  There are so many characters that have come after him that maybe haven't put the whole package together, but I mean, clearly, Hulk Hogan has a lot of Billy Graham in him.  Certainly, Scott Steiner, a lot of the similarities are there.  Jesse Ventura would probably not be Governor today had it not been for Billy Graham setting the stage for him to come and do some of the flamboyant things that he did.

SLAGLE:  Even Ric Flair...

RYDER:  Ric Flair has, you know...everybody that followed him [Graham] I think, in one way or another, has picked up something from what The Superstar did back when he broke into the business.